Ikarus: Teaching and Studying in Virtual Learning Environments Home -> Weekly -> Forums -> Reviewer's Lounge -> Synchronous, Asynchronous, Poly-synchronous Communication SYNCHRONOUS, ASYNCHRONOUS, POLY-SYNCHRONOUS COMMUNICATION by Chris Francovich - Tuesday, 4 March 2003, 05:03 PM Hello all, I would like to start a thread talking about the theoretical and practical aspects of our use (or understanding) of time in communication. I hesitate to say ‘virtual communication’ only because the term ‘virtual’ presupposes an agreed upon definition of ‘communication’. Communication is obviously a ‘big subject’. However, I think that developing some basic framework for that concept would be helpful before launching into the ‘chronos’ of our communications. I am also interested in exploring our collective understanding of what we mean by ‘learning’. It seems to me that we use the term as if we all understood it and agreed on it! The reason that I want to learn more about this – and about what others know and think – is because I have been coming to the conclusion that synchronous computer mediated experiences are very flat – are very confusing. The only type of synchronous experience that I see as being helpful from a pedagogical perspective would be a kind of random synchrony that occurs in an online gaming environment. I have a student who is expert and immersed in EverQuest – Here he navigates and negotiates a continually new ‘adventure’ experience. He learns much about himself – about how he thinks and feels – he learns much about others, their strategies and attitudes. It seems a rich and exciting environment. When I see virtual environments that mimic ‘real’ environments I have the intuition that they are on the wrong track. I am not sure how to articulate this thought any better for now? So, anyway. I would like to see this thread become a fabric. How is time involved in communication? How is it important in relation to learning? What is learning? And how is this 'learning' that we do in computer mediated communications (CMC) different or the same from what we think of as learning in our synchronous language environment? Namaste, Chris Reply Re: Synchronous, Asynchronous, Poly-synchronous Communication by ben hyde - Tuesday, 4 March 2003, 05:15 PM Hi Chris Associated with this is the notion of timeliness or just-in-time learning. Being able to access information when you need it and more importantly when it is appropriate. I think synchronous communication does have its place. But is primarily useful for social exchanges - as you get a more personal response and can clarify any ambiguities (sp?). Text is an impovershish form of communication (for my mind). But online it is normally all we get ;) So we need to discover ways to make it work more effectively. I am currently working on a PhD proposal looking at how/whether the use of (audio)visualisations can improve computer mediated communications so this is something that facinates me. The draft proposal is on my (very incomplete) web page http://itrdu1.linst.ac.uk/ben I think there is potential in transfering some of the benefits of physical communication to the online space- but this should be done carefuly and certainthings will need to be presented differently - and others can be used that are not feasible in a physical space... ben Reply Re: Synchronous, Asynchronous, Poly-synchronous Communication by Kathrin Quilling - Tuesday, 4 March 2003, 05:27 PM Hi Chris, a very important and interesting point to check our collective understanding of learning! And of course the time- aspect. For me, synchronous communication is most important to understand behaviour, ideas, profiles of people. For the e-learning the synchronous communication is importatnt for the social factor of learning. In my opinion the social part is one of the most parts of learning, as in theory you learn by Model. This is one most important point how you learn - I think. Asynchronous learning is also possible with the idea of learning things because of a model, and it migth be, you have to first think what people should learn before you will choose the method like an synchronous method or an asynchronous method... Sorry, atthe moment all a bit confused, I first have to clear upmy ideas :-) Bye Kate Reply Re: Synchronous, Asynchronous, Poly-synchronous Communication by Jeff Cooper - Tuesday, 4 March 2003, 06:30 PM Hi all, I am posting a response I made to a colleague on my original thread regarding MUVEs. Since MUVEs represent polysynchronous learning communities, I thought it worthwhile to duplicate this post: Dear Shu-chuan, Your comments are very much appreciated. I agree with you 100% that long term friendships, as well as professional relationships, have developed over time at Tapped In (and other MUVEs). This, to me, represents *community building*. I am interested in sustaining professional relationships, in addition to gathering as much information as possible in the short term as well. One difference I see between the Tapped In environment and one such as this one is that after May 1, when this course is over, where will everybody be? Back in their own schools? How will we continue to communicate, or will we? One of the major criticisms of "chat" rooms is that they are temporary, users are anonymous, and nothing of substance comes out of them. MUVEs have a chat element, but they are anything but temporary, neither are they anonymous, and quite a bit of substance may be developed from them. I look forward to working with you and others as I develop my project utilizing MUVEs (most specifically Tapped In) to facilitate polysynchronous community building. There is already another thread on polysynchronous communication, and I believe I will replicate this post to that thread, so others may respond. Regards, Jeff Cooper Education Technology Specialist College of Education, Pacific University Forest Grove, Oregon USA Reply Re: Synchronous, Asynchronous, Poly-synchronous Communication by Judith Schuler - Tuesday, 4 March 2003, 06:35 PM Hi Chris one of the problems might be that on the one hand we want to create (or experience) learning environments which are enjoyable, explorative and which are able to present the topic in such a way that it is faszinating (as a pretty good computer game.) On the other hand learning should be done effectively (and quickly). And the question is, whether these two postulates can be brought together and whether they should or must be brought together. Hope I could make it clear what I wanted to say Best wishes Judith Reply Re: Synchronous, Asynchronous, Poly-synchronous Communication by Martin Maier - Tuesday, 4 March 2003, 06:38 PM Hi Kathrin, there's a lot of the "social factor" in asynchronous communication, don't you think? The messages we've been getting since yesterday (!!) already show that, I think. There are specific adavantages of asynchronous communication (no floor-taking, being able to take your time for what you are going to reply etc.). The discussions going on at the moment seem to be far from being off-topic. I wonder if we keep up the level of interactivity throughout this course... Martin Reply Re: Synchronous, Asynchronous, Poly-synchronous Communication by ulrika rogert ekholm - Tuesday, 4 March 2003, 09:16 PM RIGHT! Of course we have to make some sort of communicating what we mean with "learning"....knowledge... The second issue about different types of communication triggered a lot of thoughts that I have had in my mind for some time: Since the now a days almost embarassing word "e-learning" was minted, it has been stated as a fact that in some way communication has a BIG role to play IF the learning shall occure.... The thing is though that one of the biggest difficulties with non real life learning seems to be the lack of relations.... As I believe in gruopdynamics as a really important participator in learning environments worth it´s name that is not a surprise really. Since lack of relations means lacking groupdynamics. Is that not what one tries to make good when creating possibilities for communitybuilding? Soory now I got off the line: Communication has different qualities depending on the amount of ..lets call it relations involved in the communication... ALSO if the goal of the learningactivity is deep and profound understanding in the students that would need ONE type of coomunictingquality or level (I would guess understanding needs relations (building knowldge)) and that lets say learning a fairly normal computorprogramme might be best off if the participants did NOT build realtions of any deeper degree but kept going on a social lighter level (not to spend time in relationbuilding instead of efficient and " enough" learning level....) Wow sorry I was a bit spun off there, here are thoughts that I didn't really know I had yet;-) What do you think? Am I out of the line completely? And HOW do we form an among us coomon understanding of te term "learning"? Ulrika Reply Re: Synchronous, Asynchronous, Poly-synchronous Communication by Kathrin Quilling - Wednesday, 5 March 2003, 06:26 PM Hi Martin, no, for me there ist not a lot of time for socializing, thats what I mean. Maybe you know this feeling: You read a thread and at one time you think: yes, thats what I think. In synchronous communication you would say: "Hey, yes, I think so too, and I also want to tell you..." In asyncronous communication it might be that the discossion ist already at another point... And you can`t come through it... Do you understand what I mean? Kate Reply Re: Synchronous, Asynchronous, Poly-synchronous Communication by Chris Francovich - Wednesday, 5 March 2003, 06:29 PM File File E_Learning_3rd_Draft_MasterCopy.doc Hello Ulrika, I appreciate your term 'relations' as a way to talk about the interaction and shared meaning that exist prior to any formal 'learning' or 'teaching'. At least that is how I think about it. The relation begins the process of communication - it is prior to any change in information. But then with that relation established we go on to build more - to share more - to express more in a way that is mutually comprehensible. We learn. I think that this is partly my question. When learning itself is so relative and complex how can we know how 'time' is affecting our process? I know this sounds muddled - but I think it's worth muddling through. I am attaching a document I am working on that undergirds the e-learning application I am part of developing - I include it here because is more carefully outlines some of my thinking about learning. I would also appreciate feedback from anyone interested. What I don't address in this paper - and what I am currently puzzled by - is Time! Thanks, Chris Reply Re: Synchronous, Asynchronous, Poly-synchronous Communication by Kathrin Quilling - Wednesday, 5 March 2003, 06:30 PM Hi Ulrika could you please explain me, what youu mean with "embarassing word "e-learning" "? I did not thougt about the word as embarasing... Thanx And then I agree with you that groupdynamics are very, very important in learning scenarios and also that a lack of relations restrains learning. So I started a new thread in the cafe: "sit down, relax and have a cup of tea..." :-) Kate Reply Re: Synchronous, Asynchronous, Poly-synchronous Communication by Cordula Wild - Wednesday, 5 March 2003, 07:43 PM I want to tell you my experience: I did once a online groupwork with 5 participants. The hardes phase was to become a group. It was very difficult to find a topic to wich everybody agrees, but it was much more difficult to organize the group´. The most surprising fact for me was, that the same group dinamic affects took place in this online groupwork as they do in a f2f groupwork. But once there are some social conflicts established, it is much more difficult to through them away. I hope this example will help me in this seminar for the upcoming groupworks. brgds, Cordula Reply Re: Synchronous etc, some jottings by Anne Fuller - Thursday, 6 March 2003, 12:28 PM I haven't come up with anything coherent on this subject, but will make some observations. Firstly, when lecturing/teaching f2f it is relatively easy to determine if a student just doesn't get it. I keep a look out for the glazed expressions etc, and adjust accordingly. Even if all nod their heads to say they understand, it soon becomes obvious if someone is still having difficulties grasping some concept. How do we do something similar online? How can we tell if someone is just making all the right moves, that they are actually totally lost? An increasingly common practice in software development is "pair programming". In pair programming, two programmers sit at the one terminal. They take it in turns to type code while the other watches or dictates or whatever.The idea is that they are both responsible for the code and one can pick up the other's mistakes, or make suggstions for improvement etc. (It's basically applying the "two heads are better than one" philosophy.) Now at first glance it might seem possible to do "virtual" pair programming. We have the technology available to have two remote computers sharing a workspace, we can provide text, voice and even video links. Yet there is no support for this idea. The general consensus seems to be that the f2f communication is essential for pair programming to succeed. It is (name and complete reference escapes me at the moment) claimed the wealth of meaning in a "raised eyebrow" is lost unless the pair sit together. Only synchronous, f2f communication picks up the non-verbal nuances in an interaction. These convey more or less meaning depending on the culture. I need more time to gather these thoughts into something more pertinent to this thread, but thar's my 2c worth for now. Anne Reply Re: Synchronous, Asynchronous, Poly-synchronous Communication by hannah rosa - Thursday, 6 March 2003, 03:35 PM When I see virtual environments that mimic ‘real’ environments I have the intuition that they are on the wrong track. I am not sure how to articulate this thought any better for now? I don't see why. For me it's the only possible way for "viruals" to mimic "reals" - at least for this and the next comming generation -, what else will give you a that fast overview than the thinking a there is a "cafe',..." too. You easyly get familiar with a yet anknown place when you find well known "items" somewhere there. Environment changes the brain hardly does. Reply Re: Synchronous, Asynchronous, Poly-synchronous Communication by Chris Francovich - Thursday, 6 March 2003, 04:57 PM Hannah Rose: Thank you for your comment. Let me try to explain more completely what I mean. What I mean by 'mimic real environments' doesn't refer to the visual or linguistic design of the interface or the indexing of information - clearly the 'real' in this sense always informs our language. What I mean in 'mimic the real' is more related to the notion that what we are trying to capture in the virtual environment are those embodied features of existence that are so 'real' to us in relationships and direct experience with an other or, more accurately, a co-subject. An example is the use of the word 'cafe'. I can have a forum called a 'cafe' that is intended to hold social conversation - that makes a lot of sense and serves its purpose well. We also see people designing 'virtual cafes' with tables and chairs and waiters, etc. This kind of design seems to me the wrong direction. I love real cafes with tables and chairs. I don't want that experience virtually. What I use a virtual cafe for is language - text, meaningful graphics, and other design features that support my primarily linguistic experience. What I refer to has to do with efforts to create co-subjectivity using models of features of the 'real' environment. I think it is relatively easy to model objective features of the environment - what is hard (to me) is the relationship and communication element - the creation of shared meaning. For example - in the two examples below what are the differences and similarities? Which is potentially more meaningful? 1. I tell you a story from my experience and we begin a dialogue wherein you tell me a story too and then we begin to create a joint story 2. I run into you in a virtual world where we are both navigating and interacting with a story that a designer or developer has told. We then begin a dialogue about our experiences with that other story. This is sort of what I mean. I appreciate your comments. Also your observation about the differing rate of change between the brain and the environment is interesting. I suppose it depends on what you define change as... I see the dynamic nature of brain processes as a kind of change. One could argue that the brain changes more rapidly and frequently than the environment. There is also the issue of where the environment begins and ends! Ahh well. Thanks, Chris Reply Re: Synchronous, Asynchronous, Poly-synchronous Communication by ulrika rogert ekholm - Friday, 7 March 2003, 08:10 PM I am sorry Katrhrin, I didn't mean to imply anything really, I will explain honestly: In Sweden we had a couple of years ago a tremendous boom in e-learning companies that sold e-learning .. And all they did was books on the screen or nicelooking interfaces whit nice little javas and flash movies. They proclamied themselves the new generation pedagouges none whith any more knowledge of kognition, pedagogy or method than a teenager recently getting out of school. Of course the boom imploded and all the companies went bankrupt. NOW the are starting to say things like:e-learning developers may have something to learn from pedagouges...... So at least in Sweden e-learning actually is a word that is has a really bad taste to it among people interested in how learning really works;-) I hope you now see my point of wiew. Glad you agree whith me in the issue of groupdynamics;-) Reply Re: Synchronous, Asynchronous, Poly-synchronous Communication by ben hyde - Thursday, 13 March 2003, 04:04 PM Ulrike I am just back tracking through conversations... And really like your emphasis on the group and the need for (or importance of) relations. Here's to some fruitful and productive ones in here. ben Reply Re: Synchronous, Asynchronous, Poly-synchronous Communication by Travis Hines - Friday, 21 March 2003, 05:21 PM Kate, I'm with you on this one. No-one can see my nods or hear my grunts of agreement or disagreement as I skim through threaded discussions, so they miss both the potential for affirmation and clarification. On the other hand, what this asks of me is a more intentional, creative participation if I really want to be a part of the conversation. The discouraging part, however, is the thought that my contributions might be missed because of the lag-time between postings. ===========================================================================================rder-left-alt:solid windowtext .5pt;