Ikarus: Teaching and Studying in Virtual Learning Environments Home -> Weekly -> Forums -> Studygroup Technology -> RIPE - Rapid Instruction and Production Environment RIPE - RAPID INSTRUCTION AND PRODUCTION ENVIRONMENt by Tobias Mueller-Prothmann - Tuesday, 11 March 2003, 01:26 PM RIPE as presented in the paper by McHenry and Sonwalkar provides a method `that makes the customers (i.e., students) part of the devolpment process' in the production of web based learning material. This is done by facilitating prototyping and integrating testing as elements of the (multiple repeated) content production cycle. I do not want to adress here all the individual technical elements of RIPE - Rapid Instruction and Production Environment - but to discuss the method of an instruction and production environment of that kind and its theoretical prerequisites. There are several similarities of this method of integrating `customers' (i.e., students) in a production process like e.g. the open source (especially) linux development process (`customer', i.e., users), product innovotion (`customer' as customers in the actual meaning) etc. And the application of a `customer integrating method' seems to be quite successful! So the RIPE-paper is imho to be considered as an approach that is worth to be followed up. But it lacks - at least as described in the paper - a theoretical analysis of the underlying process. It could be usefull to develop a more theoretically and empirically based and explicitly outlined process modell than a mere description of technical components or user interfaces. May be we could find some literatur on that topic?! Re: RIPE - Rapid Instruction and Production Environment by Attila Szöcs - Wednesday, 12 March 2003, 02:33 AM It was definitely delightful to read McHenry’s and Sonwalkar’s paper. Netscape’s antiquated appearance is enjoyable by itself. Unfortunately, being antiquated, the paper does not inevitably recommend itself for a discussion in terms of technology. In the past 5 years so much more has become possible in every respect that to discuss the technology described would mean to reinvent the whole environment. However, the technical implementation is one thing, the idea behind it quite another. Pedagogically speaking, RIPE is obviously based on the learn-theoretical considerations of constructivism: - Set the stage but have the students generate the knowledge for themselves as much as possible. (That is, a master-apprenticeship relationship in which the apprentice gains more and more independence.) - Have the students collaborate in knowledge construction. Learning environments based on constructivist theory are supposed to being shaped by the students. Also, constructivism understands learning as a highly communicative resp. collaborative activity. The constructivist perspective of learning and instructional design, its didactic equivalent, have come of age themselves (see Brenda Mergel, Learning Theories of Instructional Design, http://www.usask.ca/education/coursework/802papers/mergel/brenda.htm, also Bonnie Skaalid, Elements of Constructivism, http://www.usask.ca/education/coursework/802papers/Skaalid/index.html, Doug Pinder, My Constructivism, http://www.usask.ca/education/coursework/802papers/pinder/pinder.html). However, it might still be a suitable starting point for a theoretical analysis of the RIPE project and indeed the design of distance learning environments. Re: RIPE - Rapid Instruction and Production Environment by Tobias Mueller-Prothmann - Wednesday, 12 March 2003, 11:46 AM Attila, you are completely right that this approach is in line with a constructivist perspective. And this could be a good starting point for the theoretical foundation of a model as proposed in my previous remark. But moreover I suggest another aspect: RIPE could also be regarded as a strategic tool - in a very pragmatic perspective. Re: RIPE - Rapid Instruction and Production Environment by Christer Lind - Thursday, 13 March 2003, 02:45 PM Hi, I agree to Tobias point that student (=customer) participation in course/material development can be successful, such as in the Linux case. Some call the customers PROSUMERS - they both produce and consume. But, a good implementaion of the concept is often not very easy, I believe. And, as you say, the underlying processs model or theory is not presented very clearly. Attila, yes the technical solution of RIPE seems also to me to be somewhat antiquated, and today's technology can offer more sophistication. I also find your description of the contructivist theory interesting for online co-operative work and communication. Our coordinator's instruction for this assignment was: The authors " ... talk about one way of creating a living Online world for Asynchronous Learning Networks. How can the same approach for technical implementation be used to enhance the liveliness for a synchronous Online Learning environment?" My interpreation of RIPE is that it is mainly a type of Broadcasting from the teacher, supplemented with e-mail communication - an asynchronous implementation. I believe that the coordinator wants us to discuss how new technology can support a synchrounous environment, which I think means a more direct, and living communications. This lead me into thinking of shared applications, where students and teachers can work with the same program and data. One part att the time can work with the program, the other can see results, and the intitiative can than be passed back and forth until everyone is happy with results. As far as I have heard, programs like MS Word and Powerpoint may handle this. I am unsure to what extent technology support Internet distribution of shared applications, but if not today, it will probably be possible in the future. Another dream is to have distance learning enironment via the web supported by video conferencing technology. Students at home (or anywhere) sitting at their small "studio", looking at and listening to the teacher, posing questions, getting answers, and maybe working with shared applications. That would be something! All the problems of rating student contributions (mentioned in the article) will be gone - questions are posed and answered i real time! There are equipment avilable for small, local studios on the market. But the question is of course COST for that type of distributed infrastructure? How mature is the technology? And can Internet support distribution effeciently? At the IT University in Kista, Stockholm, I have particpated in video conference lectures, supported by ISDN communication, electronic drawing boards, cameras and sound. The distant participants were in Swedish locations far away from Stockholm. And I know that the University now is incorporating students form Chile with this solution. For some more information follow this link http://itm.dsv.su.se/eng/mit/ommit.htm Of course, it's less complicated to run video conferences to a handfull of sites, than to interact directly with maybe hundreds of students. But I believe this type of solution is one for the future as it "enhances the liveness for a synchronous Online Learning environment" - don't you think? Re: RIPE - Rapid Instruction and Production Environment by Jessica Smaaland - Thursday, 13 March 2003, 08:00 PM If we want a synchronous environment we’re back at the discussion about availability to the Internet, as we talked about in the CD vs. Web topic. But if we assume that this is not a problem, a lot can be done in this area. I must say I’ve wanted some applications in my years at the University that would have simplified especially group works. For example, the possibility for several people writing the same Word document at the same time. With that I mean that when one person writes a word it appear at the other screens. I know that Word has a function (somewhere…) that allows you to see all changes that have been made. But this doesn’t allow synchronous work. A similar tool of what I’m asking for is actually Microsoft Netmeeting. I haven’t used it that many times, and I don’t know if the program is good, but it has a function where several people can paint on the same “white-board”, as well as talking to each other with a microphone. Why isn’t this tool more used? Every windows computer has the program for free. It would be great to use it for brainstorming, and it’s easier to save your thoughts than if you had written it on an ordinary black- or white board. Other existing tools that I wish was more used is the nice instant messaging programs that also is free to use: ICQ, Yahoo Messenger, MSN Messenger. I guess it’s more. It’s a much more convenient way to communicate than with email. An ordinary chat is also an idea, but as we all can see in this course, it’s hard to get people there at the same time. The chat rooms is always empty, therefore you never log in. And the circle goes on. I doubt video conferencing is a solution today. At least with individual nodes since I hardly think that the current capacitay is enough. It won’t work with hundreds of students. Even with only a few nodes there are problems. First the connection can fail. Then, as I notice (I’ve been at the same courses as Christer), people were a bit shy to communicate through the microphone. The interaction therefore decreased instead of increased. But maybe in the future it will work. Re: RIPE - Rapid Instruction and Production Environment by Christer Lind - Friday, 14 March 2003, 09:44 AM Hi Jessica, I think that the programs you are referring to are what I call "shared" applications. I agree with you that these need to be developed more for being real useful to many people. About video conferences: As you say, these solutions are maybe today not very feasible. But my idea was for the future. An ideal video Internet setup would come fairly close to face-to face meetings, using all our human senses when interacting. And in real meetings people are also often shy to show what they think, at least in many Nordic countries (the Jante law...). When people get used to use the new technology, I think this problem will decrease. :-) Christer Re: RIPE - Rapid Instruction and Production Environment by Jonas Norrby - Friday, 14 March 2003, 06:42 PM I do agree that it’s preferable to use an synchronous environment. It simplifies the communication and makes it more effective. But, as Jessica mentioned, this kind of learning environment has disadvantages to. Everyone that wants to participate must be online at the same time, which makes it more difficult to get it to work, especially when there are participants from all over the world in different time-zones. There are many different technologies that supports synchronous communication and the successful use of those are highly dependent on the number of users. The more users the more net capacity is required. Apart from the disadvantages, I would prefer synchronous e-learning. Real-time interactivity has more similarities to the physical classroom, which makes it easier for the instructor to assess the students level of knowledge and tailor the material appropriately. It’s easier to have a discussion and you don’t have to wait hours to receive an answer for your question. Live communication also makes it possible for students to get direct guidance when working with exercises. I have tried different kinds of peer-to-peer communication where one part connects to the other parts computer via, for example, terminal services or programs like that. If you have a problem, just tell a friend and he can show you how to do directly on your monitor screen. While you are doing this you can also talk to him with a microphone. I think this kind of learning has a lot of advantages. It’s easy, pedagogical, effective and fast and you can connect to your friend wherever he is. I cant tell if there is a program like this where you can co-operate with more than one user at a time, but it would be an alternative to physical meetings. Imagine the combination of the advantages that a videoconference has with the advantages of a multi-user terminal service program. Then you can carry out all group related exercises together with your friends on the same computer, from home!. This will of course need a very fast connection to the internet. Re: RIPE - Rapid Instruction and Production Environment by Anders Modd - Friday, 14 March 2003, 08:07 PM RIPE seems very interesting in many ways though it still has a lot of development and complementary functions to work with. What I like most is Not that it is a good way to defeat geographic distances for participants, but that it has a clear approach that sets the student in the centre. Sometimes I feel that the students needs, feedback and wishes is not handled in the best way to improve the current course material, routines, lectures and related project work in the course. What can be a better input than the students itself ? The function in RIPE of asking questions, get an answer and then rating it is great. About input: Imagine yourself if you after every lecture rated the entire session in different areas...:-) I'm not saying that the teachers of today doesn't make a good job. I'm saying that the platform to improve the courses is among the students and it is strange that you still in some (not every as far as I'm concerned) courses at one occurance fill in a plain paper or an online form. There is so many other ways and in so many other environments that this can be done. Hmmm...no technology in this reply! BTW Jessica S. about Microsoft word and seeing what other users have done in the document: It's referred as "Tracking" in Word... Re: RIPE - Rapid Instruction and Production Environment by Jan Lundholm - Sunday, 16 March 2003, 08:47 PM Just like Attila, I think that the technical solution that the article addresses is antiquated. As figure 3 “Physical Setup” illustrate it, a camera is focusing on the “paper sketchpad”. If I understand this right the purpose of this setup is only to visualize what the teacher writes on the paper. For this purpose there are other technical tools, where u simply writes with a “digital pen” and the result it’s shown directly on the screen. (I will try to find some article about this). As Christer and Jessica I find the video conferencing technology interesting. But just as Jessica, I think that this is not a solution of today. I think the idea of having a video conferencing among all participants is great, but the main obstacle for that is the limited bandwidth. But until that I believe that tolls like Microsoft Netmeeting is a good alternative. Just want to finish this contribution to say that I share the opinion the article RIPE: Rapid instruction and Production Environment that it has to be simple to for the content designer to add educational value. The issue must therefore be “Does it (the content) say the right things, in the right places?" and not “How does it look” Re: RIPE - Rapid Instruction and Production Environment by Roberto Cuccu - Sunday, 16 March 2003, 11:06 PM Hi, Jessica has wondered why Netmeeting is not more often used. Well, as a matter of fact it allows to exchange audio only between two users at a time. If a larger group is to be connected, a provider must be contacted for the service. The board can instead be shared among several users. Have any of you ever tried a software like Mind Manager, a shareware application that allows you to create and share on-line mental maps? You can take turns in building a conceptual / mental map and then passing it in turn to the others. http://www.mindjet.com/ As far as which kind of interaction is to be preferred (synchronous or asynchronous), I think that as always a balanced integration of both should be favoured. Let's not forget that learners need time to reflect upon what they are studying and also we should consider different ways of interaction with the tutor or with other students, taking into account different learning styles. Finally, a good synchronous interaction, such a chat session, require experienced participants and a pre-planned structured organization of the meeting, in order to avoid wasting everybody’s time. Personally, I would care less for a teleconferencing option and more for simple but more effective and democratic devices such as chat and possibly other tools. Roberto Cuccu Re: RIPE - Rapid Instruction and Production Environment by Marcus Kronen - Tuesday, 18 March 2003, 04:56 PM Hello Robert. Yes and no :-) I am using Mindjet's MindManager and I am pretty enthusiastic about that. If you want to bring your ideas down to paper you are very quick as MindManager is well designed in this aspect. It is also very easy and comfortable to reorganize your ideas. Try to do that with a mindmap on a sheet of paper! What get lost is the individuality of your mindmap. You can easily add little signs an drawings to your map on paper. With Mindmanager you have to choose one of the sign/cliparts which are given with the software or you must digitize via scanner or digicam. That was my YES. I wrote NO, because I never used it in team :-( Do you? I wonder if it works well. Just let us know ... :-) To MS Netmeeting. We haved used it in a seminar on university. If I remember correctly, you can, if you have ISDN, make a conference with three partners (like telephone conferences on phone). But the quality wasn't very well, neither audio, nor video. And in my opinion that's an important point -- it's simply not comfortable: you can hardly see the mimics of your partner and in audio there is often a delay. Maybe thats a point of software and communication protocol. Have you ever tried Picophone? http://www.vitez.it/picophone/index.html It uses simple UDP and not the Netmeeting protocols. Your delay is displayed. To call someone you need his IP-address. Conferences with more partners a possible. I agree with you, that a balanced environment of synchronous and asynchronous communication is best. I like to have time to formulate my answers especially as I am no native English and I need more time to write down what I want to say. But I like also chats because synchronous communication allows to develop sponaneous ideas in less time. Marcus. --- mck == Please mention this tag somewhere in your answer, so that I can find it by means of the forum search. Thanks a lot! Re: RIPE - Rapid Instruction and Production Environment by Marcus Kronen - Tuesday, 18 March 2003, 05:14 PM Hello Jan. At our university we have in two lecture rooms such a camera in use for face-to-face lectures. It's good for profs that are used to work with an overhead projector. And I like it as you can zoom in and add comments by hand quickly and spontanously. It's fine for synchronous lectures but makes no sense with asynchronous ones. Marcus. --- mck == Please mention these three letters somewhere in your answer, so that I can find it by means of the forum search. Thanks a lot. Re: RIPE - Rapid Instruction and Production Environment by Marcus Kronen - Tuesday, 18 March 2003, 05:25 PM Hi Anders. I like that student-centered approach of RIPE very much as I know how frustrating it can be if a teacher/professor is not interested in feedback. At my university at the end of a semester there are sometimes questionaires we can fill out and add a little personal statement. In most cases I assume that they will be thrown read but not analysed or even unread in the recycle bin. In Germany the professors, unlike for example in the USA, get every month the same salary, no matter if they did their job well or not. It is planned for 2005 to depend 20 % of the salary on quality of their work. I hope that will change this frustrating situation. Is it the same in Sweden? Marcus. --- mck == please mention these three letters in your answer, so that I can find it by means of the forum search. Thanks a lot! Re: RIPE - Rapid Instruction and Production Environment by Marcus Kronen - Tuesday, 18 March 2003, 05:31 PM Hi Jessica. Are you sure, that there is a feature that allows synchronous editing of one Word document? I'm aware of a function, that allows to correct other peoples text and track that by means of sktriking out or colouring the text. Marcus. --- mck == Please mention these three letters somewhere in your answer, so that I can find it by means of the forum search. Thanks a lot. Re: RIPE - Rapid Instruction and Production Environment by Håkan Jeppsson - Wednesday, 19 March 2003, 11:55 PM Are we taking in generally terms about system development or are we talking about our coming task? Build an e-learning web application for Internet users regardless if they have Microsoft, Apple or Unix or Linux? If yes we should focus our self on things like open software like XML, XHTML and productive tools like Macromedia for tailoring or high level tools for tailoring the hole e-learning environment. Anyway here you have some info about Microsoft. Jessica is right about sharing of documents. "Web Folders: A New Way to Share Information in Office 2000 In Microsoft Office 2000 you can use Web folders to share documents created in any Office program in one easy-to-find location. So what's a Web folder? It's a shortcut to a Web server. When you save a document to a Web folder, the file is saved on a Web server, not on your computer's hard disk. Anyone who has access to your Web server can view the documents in your Web folder. With your permission, readers can also make changes directly to those files. For example, co-workers in different locations can help each other prepare for a meeting, making last-minute revisions to an Excel worksheet and a Word document in the same Web folder." (Microsoft site 20030319). Locking and storing mekanism on sign, row or document is still a issue to find info about. Here you have some more Microsoft links if you want to know what they can do. Microsoft MSN Messenger http://microsoft.com/catalog/display.asp?subid=22&site=10033&x=28&y=10 Microsoft® Windows NetMeeting® http://microsoft.com/catalog/display.asp?subid=22&site=113&x=36&y=3 Håkan Re: RIPE - Rapid Instruction and Production Environment by Jan Lundholm - Thursday, 20 March 2003, 09:57 AM Hi Marcus, (mck) If I understood u right u has equipment for online-lectures (in class) at your university. Well I have done something similar, having synchronous lecture in real time together with a class in Santiago, Chile. So there is no doubt I believe in this technology. But what I was trying to say was that I think this isn’t today a technology for individual students at their homes... and the main obstacle for this is the limited bandwidth. Isn’t this your opinion too?? Jan Re: RIPE - Are we talking about single programs or about a Learning Environment by Martina Gajewski - Saturday, 22 March 2003, 02:24 PM Dear fellow students, I found your discussions very interesting, and I learned a lot, too. But didn't I understand the article correctly that it is about producing an overall Learning Environment using Prototyping and Student Involvement, i.e. an architecture of such an integrated environment?! You, on the other hand, talk about individual programs/tools that are shareable, not, however, about an integrated learning environment for which you now suggest an architecture if it's going to be a "Synchronous Learning Network". Of course, there will have to be some real-time elements added to Figure 2 (Flow of Control). And including a white board - technique or shared word documents would be part of it. But first it needs a design of when and where to apply these real-time elements in the development process, and for what areas of teaching. The example in Figure 5 is rather technical. I ask myself now, what it could mean to have a synchronous Online Learning Environment. Should we apply real-time elements to the prototyping and testing part and leave the actual running of the course asynchronous, or vice versa: have the prototyping part asynchronous and the actual running of the system synchronous or have both synchronous???? I must admit: this article was the hardest for me to understand as I think the architecture is not explained well there. If I had been the author, I would have started out with the example of the technical (Mechanics?)course and then explained the different stages of development + the architecture. I would have also explained the difference between "authoring and student functions" on the one hand and "supporting functions" on the other hand better. Where are the prototyping elements now, and where is the fixed end-version? Or will there never be one? Is it all "prototyping"???? Martina Re: RIPE - Rapid Instruction and Production Environment by Björn Finer - Sunday, 23 March 2003, 01:16 PM Hi! After reading the article I wonder about the benefits of rating 'every answer that they view'. I understand that it could be very useful, since you can find a correct answer or at least an answer that led you to the correct answer. That's good. What could be bad, is that it could lead to low self-esteem for people who often get bad ratings. Perhaps I have misunderstood the usage of the rating system, but I don't think public rating is the right way to go in education. What I find interesting and good about asynchronous learning today is that asynchronous learning is not 'as asynchronous' today as before (especially) the Internet. Today the asynchrony CAN differ only in hours or even minutes instead of days or weeks (as with snailmail). Different Time zones are always obstructive in synchronous learning, but never in asyncronous learning. If you have attended a traditional face-to-face seminar, I'm sure someone (hopefully not you ;-) ) came late and interrupted the seminar. In asynchronous learning you won't have to wait for people that are late. Perhaps I'm far off subject now, but I just realised how much I prefer asynchronous learning. :-) Re: RIPE - Rapid Instruction and Production Environment by Anders Modd - Sunday, 23 March 2003, 04:24 PM Aloha Marcus, unfortunately it is not the same in sweden. But the idea is good and hopfully it will in a near future be implemented at Stockholm University :-) Probably some university in sweden is using this methood of paying the teachers but on a trial basis, but no what Im aware of at the moment. mck == Yours /A Re: RIPE Rating and asynchronous vs synchronous by Martina Gajewski - Sunday, 23 March 2003, 10:45 PM Hi Björn, thanks for the hint about the improvement of asynchronous transfer. Of course it has become quicker, now that you mention it.... you are right: in so far, time zones do not matter that much anymore. As to the rating: I thought it had something to do with the students' testing of the environment, i.e. the trying out of the environment in the prototyping phase. Maybe I got it all wrong... Martina Re: RIPE - Rapid Instruction and Production Environment by Dorota Urbanczyk - Monday, 24 March 2003, 01:57 PM Hi Everybody, I greatly value all of you brave people who discuss this article. Looking at the title I thought it will be interesting to me, but I have to say I don't understand it at all. How would anybody benefit from rating answers to questions (from past exams)? How is it going to influence the instruction and online environment production? What is the aim of that experiment? Hmmm, anyway I've read it. What comes to my mind when I hear "rapid instruction and production environment" is the question about the tools which help fast creation of on-line environment or course development. By now I've seen only one short presentation of ToolBook Instructor (click2learn) and know that there is another one made by/or called Macromedia. But they are both for course development rather than on-line environment creation - do I understand that right? And the last question? :-) Does the term Asynchronous Learning Networks mean something more than the words themselves? (has it got some special definition?) Thanks, Dorota Re: RIPE - Rapid Instruction and Production Environment by Jessica Smaaland - Monday, 24 March 2003, 04:30 PM I haven't realized that this thread was so long now. I better answer... Yes, it was that tracking-function I was talkning about. But even with the new web-folder, the work will not be synchronous. What I'm looking for is a program that shows the same text on two computers, and when somebody write something it appear at the other person's screen too. I don't really understand the rating system either. But I use to be at a swedish forum where you can rate the answers, and then the author gets a higher grade. People with high grade therefore seems more trustable. That's good. Maybe it was something similar the article was talking about...? Re: RIPE - Are we talking about single programs or about a Learning Environment by Håkan Jeppsson - Thursday, 27 March 2003, 07:13 PM Hi Martina I agree with you that the article is a bit confusing. The article is about a asynchronous learning network. Our task is to discuss how the same approach could be improved to enhace a synchronous learning environment. Håkan:-)="/t/1.gif" align=middle>