Ikarus: Teaching and Studying in Virtual Learning Environments Home -> Weekly -> Forums -> Studygroup Technology -> Learning in Real Time (Synchronous) LEARNING IN REAL TIME (SYNCHRONOUS) by Håkan Jeppsson - Friday, 21 March 2003, 12:48 PM Learning can be done in conference systems with Real Time Communication (RTC). RTC is building on the standard Session Initiation Protocol (SIP). http://www.cs.columbia.edu/sip/overview.html If you want to try how it can work download a free client software (windows or Linux) and try it against a test server at: http://www.marratech.com/products/step_1.shtml At the same time I am writing this I have 7 cameras on "students" on top of the screen (my picture is black because I don’t have a camera). To the right there is one big Picture on the teacher. And in the middle there is a workspace where you can paint, write or showing spreadsheets for each other. I recommend you to try this so you understand better how a learning environment can be done. If you don’t like open systems; Microsoft will have a RTC in the new windows server 2003 coming this summer. For low bandwidth users there are some possibilities in the menu to lower update frequencies of pictures. What do you think about this way of communicating? Håkan Re: Learning in Real Time (Synchronous) by Monika Hanesch - Friday, 21 March 2003, 08:55 PM I like the idea of real time communication. It makes the learning process more personal. I could well imagine an online course where special times are given to communicate with the instructor. However, one would still need an environment for the rest of the course, like moodle. Would it be technically possible to start this communication tool out of a learning platform? Monika Re: Learning in Real Time (Synchronous) by Dennis Reil - Saturday, 22 March 2003, 11:58 AM Yes, it's possible to start such a tool out of a learning platform. There're several learning environments which support e.g. netmeeting or horizon live. I think such tools can improve the learning environment in few cases but they also lead to a higher technical barrier regarding the use of a learning environment. Students will have to get to know a complex tool and they also will have to buy a web cam and a headset. Regarding online courses like this one here, we also have to take into consideration that there are people involved from all over the world living in different time zones. So it will not be easy to organize synchronous times of learning. kind regards Dennis Re: Learning in Real Time (Synchronous) by Christer Lind - Saturday, 22 March 2003, 02:12 PM Hi Håkan, Seems to be an excellent way, as my first impression. I'm right now dowloading the program to see what is about. :-) Christer Re: Learning in Real Time (Synchronous) by Martina Gajewski - Saturday, 22 March 2003, 02:34 PM Hi Monika and the others,... it makes sense to include that into a learning environment but HOW do you design it? At which points of the course would you include the communication tool. How would you prepare for the real time communication? Will all people have to load and use the software at the same time? Or will it be available within the environment? How do you synchronize the different contributions which may come at the same time? Martina Re: Learning in Real Time (Synchronous) by Petri Karhumaa - Saturday, 22 March 2003, 04:44 PM The technical level of education environment should be considered upon the target group. This kind of donwloadable real time client would surely be a good thing if the target group (=stundets) are engineers or other technically oriented people:-) At least it would be just positive for me and many other technically oriented people. BUT if the target group is people who don't know (and maybe even don't want to) about computers then I think that the most of them would see it as a barrier. Generally the technical knowledge required to complete an online course should be taken into consideration when designing a course. And the level of pre-knowledge required should of course be that of the persons that has the lowest level of knowledge. In some cases even creating a client oneself would not be a barrier, sometimes can even words like "cookie" or "javascript" be a barrier, depending on the target group. And trade-offs between usability, effectiviness and technical details must always be made. And that's what makes it so exciting, something may work fine somewhere and stink totally somewhere else:-) Re: Learning in Real Time (Synchronous) by Jochen Dietermann - Sunday, 23 March 2003, 07:03 AM Hi Hakan, as pointed out by Dennis and Petri synchronous communication would only work at a defined area such as a school and university where pupils/students can make dates for chatting and discussing online. Another possibility is the guided chat by a moderator but then all participants should live in nearly the same time zone. The technical barriers for video conferences are still relativly high and as mentioned by the others only more or less handable by technicians like us ;-) Though it is a good idea and can be implemented in learning environments, it is restricted by social and technical reasons. And if it's really that necessary? Well, have a look at the chat-rooms at this course - I remember the traffic on the first week but until the second week it seems that this rooms have lost the glance of the new. To much problems I think - everybody has different spare time activities, working hours and/or living in different time zones. E-mailing seems to me a better choice in an inernational resp. heterogenous participants environment. Jochen Re: Learning in Real Time (Synchronous) by Jeff Cooper - Sunday, 23 March 2003, 09:43 AM Jochen makes some good points regarding synchronous communication, and I'd like to expand on a few of his comments. First, he is right that it is difficult to arrange for synchronous communication when in different time zones. It is difficult, yes, but not impossible. Actually, it is quite easy to meet with someone in Australia for me (I'm in the Pacific time zone), since we're only a few hours (and a whole day) apart. Whereas collaborating with peers in Europe is more difficult for me. Video conferencing is another matter. Jochen is correct when he comments on the high-tech of high end video conferencing. However, I have been very successful having video chat with a colleague in China, using nothing more than an inexpensive webcam and Yahoo Messenger (there are of course many other systems). Not the greatest system in the world, and hampered by choppy audio and video, but when enhanced by text-chat, it is quite a useful form of conferencing. I definitely noticed myself the drop in use of the chat room here. I personally attribute that to several factors: 1) There is no way to "page" another online user to meet them in the chat room. Hence, it is completely a hit or miss situation. You have to log into the chat room and hope that the other will meet you (even if you email them, it is random that they will read it, and join you). 2) The log feature, although a valiant try, is ineffective. Without having a chat log, there is much less utility to the chat system. 3) Currently we don't have set small groups to discuss tasks in real time. This may change soon. I am still hopeful that I will be able to give tours to Tapped In MUVE to demonstrate the usefulness of a polysynchronous learning environment/community. Re: Real Time (Synchronous) in a "defined area" by Martina Gajewski - Sunday, 23 March 2003, 11:04 PM Hi Jochen, I like what you write about "the defined area" for real time learning environments. After all, it was progress to have "flexibility of time and place" when studying online. That's what made Virtual Learning Environments attractive and what they are marketed with. In a "defined area", let's say a certain field of science as is shown in the example of the essay, it could make sense to have synchronous parts in it "to enhance the liveliness of the Environment" as our task points out. Here you could tell teachers directly after a certain period of let's say video teaching, what was understandable in their lecture on certain equations about a scientific phenomenon and what wasn't, i.e. where you would suggest improvements. I have heard of a teaching software that got a prize. Here's the link: www.echalk.de There it is also mentioned that students can reflect on the content of the lecture. Martina Re: What technical specialties does the target group have to know? by Martina Gajewski - Sunday, 23 March 2003, 11:17 PM Hi Petri, what are the special pre-knowledge details people who apply real time software have to know??? Can't I just apply it as any other software as well? Martina Re: Learning in Real Time (Synchronous) by Dorota Urbanczyk - Monday, 24 March 2003, 01:07 PM Hi Everybody, I like the idea o this type of communication. I've never participated in this kind of event but I've seen some archives on HirizonLive page (http://www.horizonlive.com/try_product/archived_demos.php). It's probably not easy to run this kind of communication, but as a lecture (seen as special event) with the possibility of showing slides and parallel chat it makes sense to me. Could any of you tell me more about your experience participating or organizing that kind of communication? Dorota Re: Learning in Real Time (Synchronous) by Jessica Smaaland - Monday, 24 March 2003, 05:17 PM This looked good to me. The only similar thing I've participated in was some video conferencing lectures, that was taking part over two universities here in Sweden. But you have to sit in a special room at the university. I think that they started to stream it over the Internet after I ended that course. But I doubt they have all the facilities this program has, for example the chat possibility. For ordanary lectures this would be great. Of course it's not a complete substitute to being there where the lecture acctually is taking place, but at least enough. Re: Learning in Real Time (Synchronous) by Håkan Jeppsson - Monday, 24 March 2003, 11:40 PM I agree with Jeff that polysynchronous communication is interesting and it will be a flexible and economic solution to consider instead of physical presence. Håkan Re: Learning in Real Time (Synchronous) by Maryam Rahimi - Sunday, 30 March 2003, 11:20 PM Hello Håkan Jepson Until today I hadn’t time to try Download in this address http://www.marratech.com/products/step_1.shtml Today I download it and its very interesting with all video contact with those you have discussion in the online, but to bad I don’t have any camera. But I have a question for you, do you know why I couldn’t hear them or any contact with them wasn’t possible for me. Maryam